Tantra and spiritual power?

topic posted Mon, August 31, 2009 - 3:09 AM by  Djinn
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I think a lot of people, especially in the west, got interested in tantra because of its sexual practices and people seem to like sex. Some people go a little deeper and want to use it to take their love making to a deeper level that incorporates the emotional and higher energetics. What about people who really use it as a meditation, who learn to raise energy for psychic or spiritual practices? What can tantric practices be used for in the practical application of psychic discipline and spiritual practice, beyond the temporary experience of it? A lot of psychic energy is being directed. What can it be used for?
posted by:
Djinn
California
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  • Re: Tantra and spiritual power?

    Mon, August 31, 2009 - 6:56 AM
    Hi, Sentient.

    I believe you're correct. However, there is a slight misunderstanding in your post. What you're describing, while it is commonly called "Tantra" is actually more accurately called Neo-Tantra or Tantric Sexuality. The practices of Neo-Tantra are actually a tiny subset of Traditional Tantra. As an analogy, Tantra is to Neo-Tantra as a Ferrari is to a hubcap.

    Traditional Tantra (sometimes called Classical Tantra) is an entire spiritual system, complete with understandings of philosophy, physiology, rituals, meditation, divination, magic, natural healing, living in harmony with the environment, theology, and much more.

    With Traditional Tantra you'll discover exactly what you're looking for, both on a theoretical basis and a practical basis. By this I mean Traditional Tantra provides a way to understand what is going on, describing your five bodies, the energy paths that go through them, how to work with the points where three of the paths cross (called "marmas") for healing, how to work with the mind and energy raised during Tantric sexual practices, physiological signs of the movement of such energy, the results of the movement of the energy, etc.
    • Re: Tantra and spiritual power?

      Mon, August 31, 2009 - 5:51 PM
      Yeah, that is what I am looking for.

      And I do still enjoy sex. I am not opposed to learning how to deepen those experiences, but compared to spiritual realization and unlocking my psychic potential, it just isnt as important.
      • K
        K
        offline 139



        Re Sentient:
        "What about people who really use it [ tantra ] as a meditation, who learn to raise energy for psychic or spiritual practices?"

        Tantra means several things. It means "integration", "wholeness", as in integration / wholeness of psychophysical experience, through integrative yogic discipline, and in the Buddhist usage it also means
        "primordial pure awareness", specifically the Basis Path and Result of Awareness Yoga. Awareness yoga is in one of two major categories, Atiyoga / Dzogchen / Great Perfection, and Mahamudra / Chagyachenpo / Great Seal.

        In each of these three sets of terms, the first term is Sanskrit, the second is Tibetan, and the third is an English language approximation. In either Buddhist system, the basic idea is that Basis = Path = Result, or
        Basis Buddha = Path Buddha = Result Buddha.

        Basis Buddha is you, specifically your own primordially pure awareness, or mine for that matter, which is temporarily obstructed or limited, resulting in a lower energy, divided state of awareness. But the original pure awareness within each individual is never lost nor can it be destroyed, even by physical death.

        From one perspective, the teacher known as Guru Sakyamuni Buddha developed or realized his own pure Buddha nature over a period of one thousand lifetimes, with five hundred "impure" lifetimes and five hundred pure lifetimes.

        This resulted in an extraordinary event which is the refounding of Buddhist yoga in the current world age. The current founder Buddha Guru Sakyamuni Buddha manifested three defining attributes
        1) wholeness and completeness of awareness
        2) wholeness and completeness of compassion
        3) wholeness and completeness of power, meaning spiritual power.

        You asked about spiritual power, so I will give you a concrete, specific historical act of power manifested by Guru Sakyamuni Buddha.

        Once, about twenty five hundred years ago or so, the historical Guru Sakyamuni was attacked by a large, wild, ferocious stampeding elephant. This elephant was specifically provoked by Guru Sakyamuni's cousin Devadatta in hopes of killing Guru Sakyamuni.

        The elephant was charging straight towards Sakyamuni, and as I understand matters, some people nearby were trying to flee, since a raging elephant is a powerful and unpredictable force, that might turn in any direction.

        Guru Sakyamuni saw the elephant charge straight towards him, and he just stood there. This was not because he was lacking attentiveness, nor because he was frozen with fear. He was standing there to address a problem, not only for himself, but for others present.

        So, the elephant is making a straight line for Guru Sakyamuni, and Sakyamuni is standing there for a long moment considering the elephant. Then Sakyamuni raises his right hand palm forward in the Abhaya hasta mudra, the Sacred Hand Gesture of Fearlessness. Then the crazed elephant stops dead in its tracks right in front of Guru Sakyamuni, becomes completely calm, and the problem is solved.

        Now in Honolulu Hawaii, it took a lot of effort to stop a rmapaging elephant thaw was tearing up a main downtown avenue some twelve years back. It took a lot of firepower to bring that elephant down, to cripple and kill it.

        But to all appearances, all that Guru Sakaymuni did when he was attacked, was to make a simple hand gesture, and the huge and dangerous problem was resolved in the space of one breath.

        This is a definite expression of spiritual power, of the power of a great mystic and yogi and indeed a true Buddha. It's not a magic trick nor any kind of swindle nor rumor of what may have happened. It is simply put, a direct manifestation of jnana ( wisdom ) karuna ( compassion ) and bala ( power ).

        The overall tradition of Buddhist yoga remains alive today, at varying levels of effectiveness and completeness. Great acts of power have been performed over the centuries since Guru Sakyamuni originally taught. I myself have seen and experienced some real acts of power in the Buddhist tradition, as well as in some other traditions.

        For example, I once saw a native American bring a lame woman to ( begin to ) walk in one very short healing session, back in 1983. She actually was beginning to lift her legs. The teacher, Rolling Thunder, said
        "I did not expect this to happen in one session. I thought it would take three sessions. I did not perform this healing. It wasn't me. You healed yourself."

        So here is the real teaching on wisdom compassion and power: wisdom compassion and power are already within us. That is the core meaning of tantra in the Buddhist tradition. There is an equally important core meaning known as Lineage and Transmission, which means connecting with an authentic guru and receiving abhisekha, or transmission/ empowerment. And also there is samaya, which means maintaining the sacred connection, through ethics and self-reflection.

        In the mid 1980s Buddhist tantra saved my life, through a series of major transmission cycles and several million mantra recitations, and so forth. The abhisekha/ transmissions were mainly from
        - HE Luding Khen Rinbochay ( the principal Sakya Tibetan Ngor lineage holder )
        - HH Kalu Rinbochay ( the principal Shangpa Kagyu Tibetan lineage holder ) and
        - HH Chetsang Tulku Rinbochay, one of the two principal Drikung Kagyu Tibetan lineage holders
        - Longchen Nyingtik Breakthrough from Ven. Lama Terton Sogyal Tulku ( Nyingma, Rigpa Fellowship ).

        This includes three primary cycles of transmission from HH Kalu Rinbochay.

        I was therefore able to receive power, healing and purification, and so able to develop some power, healing, and complete some purification, when these were most needed to save my own life.

        There was no way a western muggle doctor or shrink could address the kind of problem I faced, which in retrospect seemed about as easy to handle as a wild charging elephant. So I didn't talk to any. I took the medicine of Buddha Dharma, the Discipline or Awareness.

        I have never believed in "faith healing." When I was very young, a little girl died because her parents provided her only Christian faith healing. She had appendicitis and her abdomen ruptured. Over forty years later, I still do not believe in faith healing, certainly not as the muggles do.

        But there is spiritual power, there is yoga, and there is healing. At least, these are present as possiblities.

        I myself am a medical yogi, an inner medical tantrika. I took my final exams over twenty years ago. In all that time, I have never believed in a personal creator God, nor in faith healing, nor really in any of what the yogically illiterate call "religion".

        I don't have a personal religious belief to espouse. I study and practice yoga, mainly Buddhist tantra, along with a large set of related and similar practices from across Asia, plus various protocols for high level wellness from all over, including Native American teachings.

        There are many many classical and and traditional practices that really work. My own experience is that the tantra - considered in the broader sense - is the deepest and most powerful and most broadly acting spiritual discipline. A lot of it has to do with breathing techniques ( pranayama ) and visualization, based on lineage transmission and sacred commitments as mentioned earlier.

        Vajradhara Kalu Rinbochay wrote a book:

        "The Dharma: That Illuminates All Beings Impartially Like the Light of the Sun and the Moon"
        by Kalu Rinpoche (Author)
        # Paperback: 222 pages
        # Publisher: State University of New York Press (October 1986)
        # Language: English
        # ISBN-10: 0887061575
        # ISBN-13: 978-0887061578

        There is also

        "The Crystal and the Way of Light: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen" (Tibetan Buddhist Philosophy) by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and John Shane

        # Paperback: 176 pages
        # Publisher: Snow Lion Publications (October 25, 1999)
        # Language: English
        # ISBN-10: 1559391359
        # ISBN-13: 978-1559391351

        For general purposes, these are two books I have been recommending to many here and there over the years. They are both very accessible and together provide a good foundation for further study in more technical areas of Buddhist tantra. ( My own core Buddhist stack of books and materials and sadhanas and notes is over sixteen feet tall, but you don't need more than a small functional set of teachings and transmissions and texts to engage this path. )

        I am really thankful for the efforts of these two Buddhist gurus, as well as many others ( over sixty Buddhist gurus in fact ). I have benefited greatly thereby. Perhaps you can too. It's mostly about doing your homework, it's mostly about effective yoga sadhana.

        It's mostly about awareness and responsibility and caring enough. . . and prioritizing what matters in the long term.

        You have been helped.

        Sarva mangalam. Siddhi rastu.

        KT

        • Lest anyone think I'm picking on K, the largest Buddhist internet forum requires that ordination and similar information be published prior to claims being made regarding monastic status. Likewise, nearly every anuttara-tantra internet forum requires people to provide information about the circumstances of their empowerments.

          If these are the standards simple monks and novice tantric initiates are held to, the standard for tantric gurus should be *at least* as stringent. Vajrayana has particular requirements regarding its gurus and anyone claiming to be a tantric guru should be prepared to show how, when, and under whom, they met those requirements. This is how the tradition has always guarded against fraudulent teachers. Simple common sense dictates that if you make a claim you should be ready to back it up with evidence, and this is a basic principle that extends well beyond just Vajrayana.

          So, with that in mind I once again ask a few questions of K:

          Please provide the name of the teacher(s) under whom you've been "individually trained and licensed" as a "Mahayana Buddhist guru".

          Please also provide *your* name and the date of the licensing so that this claim can be verified.

          Please provide the name of the teacher who oversaw your training as a Vajracharya and the date and location of your three-year-retreat. Additionally please provide the name (if different) of the individual who oversaw your x00,000 mantra and Fire-puja retreat, as well as the date and location of that retreat (again, only if different from the three-year-retreat). As you well know, to be a tantric Buddhist guru the samaya require it:

          "This means that we may confer empowerment on others or perform the self-initiation to restore our lost or weakened tantric vows only if we have completed the meditation retreat of the appropriate Buddha-figure, repeating the prescribed mantras hundreds of thousands of times, and offered the concluding fire-puja"

          Please provide your name and the names of these authorizing lamas so that we can verify that you are what you claim to be.

          Thank you in advance,
          Ryan "not a guru" Parker

          • Dear Ryan,

            Thanks for your response to K. I feel what you share is helpful towards the community who reads his posts.

            There is a well known symptom regarding yogi's and tantric's, that upon reaching achievements, what remains of the ego becomes drunk on that energy of those practices. That ego drunkeness manifests in various documented forms, such as "super man" complex, "meaninglessness", etc.

            There have also been those who accomplished great powers through yoga/tantra, but the ego never fully dissolved. And there are those who attained no supernatural powers, but surrendered fully and eventually the ego dissolved. There are all sorts of people, and there is something to learn from anyone. I've learned from you and K here.

            Regardless, it seems K has put a lot of dedication to writing posts, and obviously he's also hiding behind some mask/persona rather than being open and up front. To me, there are quite a few signs that he's not fully living his truth/realization, as he's still wearing masks, and not embodying the innate responsibility that comes along with any real awakening. I wish him well on his journey, as it seems he has strives and continues too...