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Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

topic posted Fri, April 11, 2008 - 8:32 AM by  Panoramix
Hi people,

Sometimes i fear i'm breeding a prostate or testes cancer due to prolonged abstinence from ejaculating, you know, occasionally my testes are sore or feel a strange sensation... Actually i ejaculate four times for year, am i pushing my limits?
I would love to hear about your opinion and experience.

Thank you!
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Panoramix
offline Panoramix
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  • Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

    Fri, April 11, 2008 - 9:45 AM
    Whate exactly do you feel the purpose of ejaculating only 4 times a year serves?

    Please explain.

    And no, I'm not a "tantric." Certain investments in certain labels can be self-defeating and limiting IMO.

    ~V~
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    • Pano...
      Panoramix
      offline 1

      Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

      Sat, April 12, 2008 - 8:36 AM
      Hi Verseau,

      There is no purpose in doing it four, five, six ... (who cares) times. Four is the number that my will power actually allows me to reach.

      I've read from several trusted sources that semen should be preserved in order to build ojas shakti and amrit. But i don't think that eternally preserving it has to be healthy. How often, this is the issue.
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  • 350ppm
    350ppm
    offline 41

    Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

    Fri, April 11, 2008 - 4:02 PM
    this issue is discussed in tao sex practices tribe:

    taoistsex.tribe.net/thread/2...f72ed7963

    There seems to be no scientific consensus on non-ejaculation and cancer risk..

    I think that flushing the body is always a good thing to not let toxins build up...

    for example, women who breast feed have reduced breast cancer risk..
    women have freshed iron in their blood than men, since they menstruate.
    Drinking lots of water is good for the kidneys
    breathing deep into the lungs makes for a cleaner lung
    enemas can aleviate some ailments..
    sweating helps rid of toxins..

    so I would think frequent ejaculation is a cleansing process that the body would benefit from.

    I also think that the human biology was made for frequent ejaculation.. certaily more than once a quarter. So I do not think it would hurt..

    So I am a big advocate of any cleansing scheme, including ejaculation. Obvioulsy there is a balance.
    I have heard that semen is made of the same kind of material as the brain..and thus the real possiblity that we can literaly fuck our brains off (although i highly doubt it).

    If you don't want to ejaculate.. you can benefit from prostate massage or multi-orgasmic PC exercising techniques since it oxigenates the organs well.

    cheers!
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    • Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

      Fri, April 11, 2008 - 4:11 PM
      Maybe it's the middle path that's probably most beneficial or healthy, while having experienced both extremes and the lessons they provide:

      ~V~
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      • Sham...
        Shambhalanth
        offline 53

        Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

        Fri, April 11, 2008 - 4:42 PM
        I would suggest that it's not the ejaculation, it's the energy. If you control the energy, the ejaculation becomes irrelevant.

        How often do I ejaculate? Whenever I want!

        BTW, from my studies of a variety of Tantric systems, as well as my personal experience, if you surrender to the Goddess and exist in the present moment, ejaculation becomes a non-issue. As far as I can tell, the concept of withholding ejaculation is a Taoistic concept and also a misunderstanding of Tantra (at least the Tantric systems I've studied and practiced), usually made by someone who is not initiated into any Tantric tradition but has "heard" you should withhold or has read it in an (unnamed) book.

        In fact, in the Adinath tradition into which I was initiated we are specifically instructed not to withhold ejaculation. But when you surrender to the goddess, live in the present, and mentally and physically experience the fact that orgasm≠ejaculation, then you move beyond those concerns.

        Namaste!
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        • Briggi
          Briggi
          offline 45

          Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

          Sat, April 12, 2008 - 1:42 AM
          Personaly I believe cumming is good... but it does release alot of energy, which tantrics seem to wan to retain because it goes to their heads. Afterward, it takes a period of recuperation to build energy levels back up. Practically speaking, there seems to have been much stuff & nonsense, myth and folklore, built up around the act, not least of all by the spiritual community, back in the dark ages before scientific quantified metrics laid alot of the hosscrap to rest.

          b!
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        • Pano...
          Panoramix
          offline 1

          Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

          Sat, April 12, 2008 - 9:16 AM
          Hi Shambhalanth,

          If it is the energy, then what about what ayurveda says, you know, the seven dhatus (chyme->blood->flesh->fat->bone->marrow->semen)?
          And that what various yogas advice about ojas shakti and amrit...

          Personally i feel a considerable loss of prana if i ejaculate more often that once a month.
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          • Sham...
            Shambhalanth
            offline 53

            Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

            Tue, April 15, 2008 - 1:18 AM
            Hi, Panoramix.

            I think it is important to understand that Tantra, Jyotish, Ayurveda, etc. are not single systems set in stone. That is, they have evolved over time and sometimes separated in several or even numerous schools. Although I am not personally interested in Tibetan Vajrayana Tantra, I recognize it as a legitimate Tantric path--just one that I choose not to follow.

            Ayurveda "says" nothing. Rather, practitioners of different schools have much to say, and sometimes they disagree with each other.

            If a person is feeling a loss of prana for any reason, the problem, IMO, is not what causes the loss--rather, it's what is not causing an increase in prana. That is, rather than saying doing X is bad because it decreases my prana, it is more advantageous to to determine what one can do to increase the prana so that doing X does not negatively effect the energy.

            Namaste!
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  • Onlynow
    Onlynow
    offline 32

    Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

    Sat, April 12, 2008 - 3:37 AM

    I've been traditionally trained by a yogi, and practiced strict Brahmacharya during 3 years of practice. It was my entire life, night and day.

    I learned to maintain the kundalini above 3rd chakra, about non-attachment from desire, from going outward towards senses. During that time, I still had to ejaculate once every 6 months... mainly because I learned once a subtle desire for sex rises, there is no way to stop it... and I never managed to fully control desire past 6 months at that time.... I would do a very good and intense masturbation once every 6 months. In between there was no erections, no dreaming (I had to control this as well), less than 500 calorie a day specific died, etc etc.

    After the years of the yogic practices I was then trained in tantric, my teacher was an Avadhutta. Anyhow... I learned to control upward and downward energies... I can by will force my energy down and I will get an erection just because of the focus of energy... has nothing to do with any desire.

    Though... when I would masturbate I would loose spiritual energy.

    It has taken me many y ears... but finally I've managed to fully remove judgment about masturbation, and also non-attach my energy from my ejaculation. Now I can masturbate till ejaculation... and I'm perfectly fine energetically. This wasn't the case before... before it would take me 1 to 2 weeks to recover my spiritual energy.

    In terms of holding the sperm ... here are two things I discovered...

    when you do not ejaculate for long time, the sperm begins taking almost a different form... it gets thicker and thicker... eventually when you ejaculate after 6 months or more, the sperm is like a long strange... you can pull it and it can go to many feet in length like a string... it starts taking a different kind of form.

    secondly... when I do not try to hold on to the sperm... i.e. not using bandha's... and I've never had to do physical bandha... I always created them energetically... then I've had a few times when I saw on the toilet seat... because my entire body is so relaxed... that just by pushing to urinate a few times I've been surprised to see sperm ejaculation come out... it was quite a strange experience ... though i realized it was because my anus/pelvic/pc muscle/et all was so relaxed that it just got released..

    it is just so not related with spirituality anymore to me...

    the real stuff to work on iis freedom from the tyranny of mind/desire
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    • Briggi
      Briggi
      offline 45

      Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

      Sat, April 12, 2008 - 9:19 AM
      You're not exactly a big spender, but you could be forgiven for hiring an escort a couple times per year.

      Some sadhus in India, to put themselves beyond the reach of temptation, pull off their dick. I mean literally physically pull it off, using attached weights, which over a not very long time, will succeed not only in rendering the small ducts inoperable, but will leave the proud owner with a longish member, albeit a flabby inoperable tube of skin that needs be rolled up each day into a tidy bundle for decency's sake. Another ritual performed by some fakir sadhus is the choo-choo train trick, where they attach chains to thier genetalia, then proceed to pull a large heavy Indian Railways steam locomotive down the track with it. Spectacular, and with much the same result: an inoperable, but impressive lingham.
      But it's true that the bonafide Sadhu gets a "baba pass" good for free rides on all Indian trains forever thereafter.

      Nice day
      b!
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      • 350ppm
        350ppm
        offline 41

        Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

        Sat, April 12, 2008 - 11:42 AM
        thanks Briggi!

        I always wonder what that pulling and rolling was all about..

        cheers
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        • Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

          Sat, April 12, 2008 - 3:05 PM
          I guess what my implicit question is Panoramix is exactly what point does ejaculating 4 times a year serve for you?

          I think Sham and Briggi made good points: put differently, you can be a giant Japanese ejaculating cum monster sometimes yet STILL retain your monster magic mojo.

          IMO, Asceticism is highly overrated. Then again, so are Gluttony and Lust.

          Polarities.

          ~V~


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          • Pano...
            Panoramix
            offline 1

            Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

            Wed, April 16, 2008 - 7:48 AM
            I've read and heard contradictory things, i'm pretty confused, i don't know what to believe actually...
            I do it because i feel a leak of prana when doing it more frequently than once a month.
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            • Sham...
              Shambhalanth
              offline 53

              Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

              Wed, April 16, 2008 - 11:54 AM
              Traditionally, Tantra was an oral tradition. It was personally taught, from guru to chela, for thousands of years before books on Tantra were actually made public and published.

              Today, many people learn from books. Often the books were written in codes or by people who read books in code and who didn't understand it. I've even known people who are IROBs (I Read One Book) who set themselves up as teachers of Tantra.

              Panoramix, I would respectfully suggest that it is time for you to quit reading incomplete books, articles, snipits, websites, listening to "things," and instead find a teacher aligned with some tradition, and then spend some time studying and practicing with him or her.

              Namaste!
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              • Pano...
                Panoramix
                offline 1

                Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

                Thu, April 17, 2008 - 9:53 AM
                I think exactly the same thing Shambalanth...

                But in my country that's like seeking a needle in a haystack... You probably know how's Spain... :)
                Some time ago i did a trip to India and although the experience was good i found nothing, i recognize i didn't strive as needed, i felt quite despaired when i saw the labyrinth that India is.

                Maybe in my next life, who knows...
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                • Sunyata
                  Sunyata
                  offline 154

                  Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

                  Thu, April 17, 2008 - 1:33 PM
                  I respect Shambalanth's suggestion to find a guru and learn through that experience. It has certainly "worked" for many people.

                  I align more with a direct experiential understanding that encourages one to be their own guru and seek wisdom through direct experience of the divine. The ancient Gnostics held this belief as well.

                  Beginning to sense your "body's" energy and bringing consciousness to that is something you can do on your own without waiting for a guru to show up. Once you're able to do that -explore the experience, you can use your expanded awareness to sense energy during sex (solo or otherwise). That's a start.

                  I suggest there's a lot you can experience and gather embodied wisdom about through conscious experiences -add to that what knowledge you can glean from any sources available to you (its much better to have sought, acquired, and enacted knowledge to the best of your own ability than to never have sought after it at all).

                  Then, When the student is ready the guru will show up. -Even if it's you.

                  Love and Light,
                  Sunyata


                  www.mythiclove.net/sunyata
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                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Pano...
                    Panoramix
                    offline 1

                    Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

                    Fri, April 18, 2008 - 9:55 AM
                    Hi Sunyata,

                    So may i, as example, observe my sensations and prana movements during masturbation?
                    With or without orgasm?
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                    • Sham...
                      Shambhalanth
                      offline 53

                      Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

                      Fri, April 18, 2008 - 12:14 PM
                      Panoramix wrote, "So may i, as example, observe my sensations and prana movements during masturbation? With or without orgasm?"

                      Your comment may be due to English as a second language. However (and I am not Sunyata), I would suggest that you don't "observe" your sensations. Rather, experience them! Be one with them! Be here now!

                      Namaste!
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                      • Sunyata
                        Sunyata
                        offline 154

                        Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

                        Sun, April 20, 2008 - 1:02 PM
                        "I would suggest that you don't "observe" your sensations. Rather, experience them! Be one with them! Be here now!"

                        Exactly Shambhalanth!

                        -And we can experience our energy with enhanced/expanded sensory perception by combining senses (i.e. "feeling" with sight, "seeing" with touch, "hearing" the vibrations of sound engaging the body in other places than with the ears -your heart for instance, "taste" -the best oral sex results from placing total awareness "sight" at/on the tongue and exploring every little space of the yoni like a sightless person might use their touch). When one expands sensory input, there is an expansion of pleasure, joy and bliss.

                        Whichever ones are chosen during a sexual experience alone or with another -experiment with them and see what new awareness develops.

                        -Sunyata
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  • Sunyata
    Sunyata
    offline 154

    Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

    Tue, April 15, 2008 - 6:24 AM
    Hi Panoramix,

    I'm at choice with ejaculation. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I usually choose "don't" for the first two or three orgasms (yes, I have them separately from ejaculation) after that, the point is usually mute because I am in so much bliss from riding the wave that, often, it doesn't seem to be a relevant choice in the moment.

    There are many times also that I choose to ejaculate with the last orgasm. In the conversation about pro or con ejaculation, often the point being discussed is about the "energy loss" that occurs at ejaculation. I agree that, especially for men who haven't separated ejaculation from orgasm yet, ejaculation early and without preparation of the body and spirit/energy will detract energy from being able to continue like one would without ejaculation. -And I've also found that by adequate preparation (breathing -pranayama, physical relaxation, inner stillness, conscious intention, focus / visualization, and energetic consciousness) when ejaculation does occur the energy doesn't have to go outward (and be a "drain" on the energy -at least a good portion of it) but can be focused and directed inwardly as one would when retaining ejaculate.

    Love and Light,
    Sunyata


    www.mythiclove.net/sunyata
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    • Briggi
      Briggi
      offline 45

      Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

      Tue, April 15, 2008 - 3:37 PM
      You know, the good Lord, our maker, designed our system so that our release of seed is hard-wired into the pleasure centers of the brain. Accompanying the release of seed is a tremendous rush of pranic stuff ,... which when accomplished simultaneously with your wife's pranic release, is simply divine... (no other way to say it)....like those shiva linghams based in a yoni, adorned with a kundalini serpent that you see so often in Shiva city, Varanasi. This shared mutual joy is the reward.. the prize, if you like, for having given up all of that energy to give those little sperms shooting off heartily along their appointed way up inside her womb a strong sendoff... and The Goddess' way of insuring that opportunities for conception take place. People wouldn't be very motivated to get all hot and sweaty and expend all of that time and energy doing sex unless there was something to it. The thought of starting a baby is probably not enough of a raison d'etre in itself for most people. This is the biology of the Divine Plan.

      So you're saying that you have learnt some way to cheat Nature ... experiencing the intense pleasure, of reaping the "reward", without having to give up seed nor prana at that time!? I think this is called the "left hand way" where you short circuit the process, maybe by having it off behind your partner's energy. This drawing off of energy from secondary sources, it is said, cumulatively reduces your partners' lifespan and her vitality by feeding off of her prana. If not, then where do you suppose that energy rush you experience comes from? I want to know.

      No, one is not cumming unless one is coming,... but the path to joy fullfillment can in itself be pleasureable, and energetically invigorating, even sometimnes minus the happy ending.

      b!
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      • Sunyata
        Sunyata
        offline 154

        Re: Male tantrics, how often do you ejaculate?

        Wed, April 16, 2008 - 6:57 AM
        "So you're saying that you have learnt some way to cheat Nature ... experiencing the intense pleasure, of reaping the "reward", without having to give up seed nor prana at that time!? I think this is called the "left hand way" where you short circuit the process, maybe by having it off behind your partner's energy. This drawing off of energy from secondary sources, it is said, cumulatively reduces your partners' lifespan and her vitality by feeding off of her prana. If not, then where do you suppose that energy rush you experience comes from? I want to know."

        Certainly! *smile*
        First, it is possible to separate the experience of orgasm from the physical response of ejaculation. The energy "comes from" the same place as in the typical auto-response ejaculation=orgasm process. It goes throughout the inner body energizing the energy centers (Chakras) -instead of projectile-ing outward producing a "spent" energetic condition.

        The Chakras are associated with feeding energy to certain organs. Chinese medicine has made mastery of this ability. In sacred sex, using the energy of orgasm (kundalini) to channel positive, healing energy to these Chakras creates a exhilarating experience of divine rapture beyond mundane auto-orgasms and fills the soul with well-being.

        My belief is it is through this higher possibility of sex that one can experience communion with the divine, revelation of the soul, and a felt sense of one's own divine aspect. To me, the brief moments of auto-orgasmic release are less desirable after experiencing this higher possibility.

        Love and Light,
        Sunyata


        www.mythiclove.net/sunyata
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